MADDEN, JOHN - THE DEBT
With his latest movie, The Debt, director John Madden (Shakespeare In Love) takes on a different type of source material Ė that of the 2007 Israeli film Ha-Hov, directed and co-written by Assaf Bernstein. On the filmís Australian DVD release, we publish Maddenís take on the film, its subject matter and its stars.
Remaking Ha-Hov as The Debt, itís a complex story about secrets, lies, history and guilt, starting in East Berlin in the 1960s and continuing in Tel Aviv in 2007. Cutting back and forth between the two, the story sees three Mossad agents (Jessica Chastain, Sam Worthington and Marton Csokas) sent to kidnap a Nazi doctor and bring him to trial in Israel. Over forty years later, the former agents (now played by Helen Mirren, CiarŠn Hinds and Tom Wilkinson) must contend with a secret theyíve kept about the operation for all this time.†
Q: What appealed to you about The Debt?
A: Well, itís extraordinarily compelling and challenging material. Itís thematically weighty. Itís an extraordinary opportunity to tell a story that in one sense is a very pure cinematic genre Ė the genre of the thriller. But also one that allows a very complex emotional and psychological drama to unfold at the same time. Usually those things pull against each other in a project and you have to stop the thriller for a moment in order to fill in the character and catch up on who they really are. And this film is very different in that way. You understand who these people are through the story thatís unfolding. It all pulls against itself in a really interesting way. An amazing challenge in terms of the material, but a great opportunity as well.
Q: How did you come across the Israeli film, Ha-Hov, that The Debt is based on?†
A: Well, I canít take credit for that. What happened was that somebody who was involved in the original Israeli film as an executive producer, brought it to the attention of somebody at the agency that represents Matthew Vaughn (director). And Matthew and Kris Thykier saw the completed film and thought it deserved a wider platform. The original film was made in Hebrew and it received quite a limited release inside Israel so not many people in Israel saw it, which I didnít realise until I got there to film. I thought it would be very well known, but it wasnít. But itís such a compelling story and so powerful and very challenging to tell that story in the form of a thriller, without selling the material short. It also evoked a movie that I really like, which is the kind of movie that used to be made in the 70s, where the thrillers were about psychology and behaviour and character was an essential part of what was going on. Those films are still being made but thereís a definite tendency for certain kinds of thrillers to move off into the total immersion zone. And the psychology is very reduced and very simple, if provocative. So the fact itís a character story and a human dramaÖ
Q: But do you think weíve gone through the Bourne phase to return to something more realistic?
A: I think so. Itís funny, one imposes those constructions in retrospect, but the impulse is probably the same. Meaning the impulse to get back to something that is a contrasting colour from what weíre used to seeing now.†
Q: What films were you thinking of that inspired The Debt?
A: The Parallax View, Three Days of the Condor. Those sorts of movies that had political complexity to them. China Syndrome is a different kind of thriller, but had something to say. So much of modern film has been hijacked by the visceral experience, the fairground ride. The most extreme manifestation is 3D, obviously. Itís about how can you bazooka somebody into a really trippy experience. The satisfactions of a film that works with tension and fear and intrigue and mystery and suspense that is also about character has been forgotten along the way. Then you see something like Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and you go ĎWow, thatís a different kind of experience.í.
Q: Did Matthew Vaughn and Jane Goldman originally intend for The Debt to be a project for Matthew to direct?
A: Yes, in the first instance. Matthew being Matthew, he thought ĎThis is a good one for me to directí, and Jane is his writing partner and does most of the actual writing. The script that I first encountered was very tailored towards being a Matthew Vaughn film. But he understood and acknowledged immediately that a director would have to make the film that he or she saw.
Q: Did you ever have any discussions with Matthew and Jane?
A: Yeah, there were some talks. I talked to Jane at considerable length, but it was fairly obvious that, because they were already engaged on Kick-Ass, which they were about to start shooting and which theyíd been writing at the same time, it was not going to work out in terms of the time frame. So Peter Straughan came onto the film and we worked very, very closely on deconstructing and reconstructing.†
Q: Given you made this two-and-a-half years ago and you have Sam Worthington and Jessica Chastain in the cast, you must be a good
A: Well, with Jessica, I was very lucky to find her. I absolutely wanted to cast an actress who was little known. I didnít want ĎHow did she turn into Helen Mirren?í to become the agenda that dominated the film. If it had been another famous actress, that wouldíve been the case. But directors are often credited with discovering somebodyÖ
Q: And Sam?
A: Sam I knew only from one film. Avatar had been shot but it hadnít come out. I wasnít even aware that heíd done these things. Strangely then, as now, people arenít quite sure who he is. He was in a film called Somersault and I remembered the performance very strongly. It made an impact on me and he just lodged in my mind, as soon as I came across the material. Itís an unusual part. Heís the bespectacled boy in Lord of the Flies; that character Ė heís wounded, and damaged, and hidden, but equally he has to have a heroic masculine presence. He just seemed like a very good fit. I went and pitched the film to him in Albuquerque once I had traced where he was (he was there shooting Terminator: Salvation). So I thought, ĎIf I think heís right Iíll pitch it really well and, if I think heís not right, I wonít pitch it so well!í. So I pitched it as well as I could Ė he has a very distinctive presence. As it happens, the time-span has probably not hurt us. Itís certainly not hurt us with Jessica. Actually, when it was originally supposed to come out, Sam wouldíve been known then. But you know what? People see the movie because of Helen.
Q: Is that down to her success with The Queen?
A: Of course it is, but those of us who live in this country knew her as an iconic figure well before that. Thatís unquestionably what has put her in that position internationally though, just as Ė nothing to do with me Ė Mrs Brown did for Judi Dench, who did not have a film career of any significance before that. Itís where they suddenly click with a role Ė often a royal one as it turns out! You could say the same of Colin [Firth], I guess. But Helen is one of those actors, and Judi Dench is another one, that audiences just connect with because of something to do with their being immediately available. An audience finds it very easy to engage.†
Q: And youíve made another movie with Tom Wilkinson and Judi Dench, The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. Whatís that about?
A: Itís a comedy but itís a melancholy comedy about a constituency that is ignored in life and in movies frequently - older people, the grey. Thatís a line in the film! Itís about the grey pound and the grey opportunities, or lack of opportunities. Itís about people who find themselves at some dead end, either through lack of money or bereavement or physical infirmity or a wrong marriage. And none of these people know each other and they get pointed to a website which is advertising a crumbling Indian palace as a hotel where people can go and retire and outsource their retirement. Itís a very funny idea, and a very good idea of the character played by Dev Patel. They arrive and of course the place is not what it purports to be, as nothing in India really is. And itís about them colliding with India and with one another. Itís a very unusual piece.†
Published March 22, 2012
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